Sunday, 4 October 2009

A Conversation with Seyi

seyi alagbe:  villager how are you?
me:              i am fine
seyi alagbe:  how was Abagboro, Oke Ake etc
me:              fine o
seyi alagbe: how was sunday service, last time i read your comments on tithes; so what do u think about it?
me:             that comment was meant to get your comment and not mine,
thanks for bringing it up now
so, i'm all ears
seyi alagbe: to me i believe their is no big deal about it, it was instituted in the old testament but not mentioned in the new testament by the apostles. for new testament i believe God is not only asking for 10% but the right of ownership, remember it is God who gives power to make wealth. So for people that agree with tithes i have nothing against them i only think everyone should let Holy Spirit guide as to giving. but the problem is how many people are opened to such leading
me          i wish you would separate giving from tithe
you still there?
seyi alagbe:i think for now we should pay attention to giving in areas of meeting needs of saints, ministers of God and even others around us and as occasion may call for.if we can allow God help us to give as we should we can forget about tithe
me:             that's alright, but my question is, are we under obligation as believers to pay tithe?
seyi alagbe: no
me:             so why do ministers stick to that one verse of the scripture and keep heaping moral/psychological burden on christians?
seyi alagbe: what verse are you referring to?
me:              Mal 3:10
and co
seyi alagbe: actually if we really want to look at old testament we would have to follow all the instructions God gave and not single out some. the only problem is the fear of people not giving because we are not under the obligation and thats where maturity and yielding to the leading of the Spirit come to play
me:             and that's exactly where the motives of many men of God stand questionable
some do not know better but others do
i started getting curious while in Ife
when i read some precepts about tithing
i did some study and could not substantiate a new testament relevance of it
i stopped paying it at first but i later continued so as to avoid argument to no profit
and because it helped with the village work
seyi alagbe:  that's why Paul's prayer that all should come to the full measure of the stature of Christ is important. for those who know and still insist may be they do not want to appear to be preaching heresy
me:               maybe
how come tithe would be the only practice that should suffer the upheaval work of Christ?
fault was found with the first covenant and so it was removed
all of it
seyi alagbe:   actually i pay it atimes to my local church but i don't it see as tithe because personally I decided not to give below what was required in the old testament
me:               even then the concept of it still remains in your mind though couched in personal financial commitment
come to think of it
there were 3 ways tithe was paid in the old testament...
seyi alagbe: Jesus died and rose so that He would purchase us for Himself because Eni to l'eru lo l'eru
me:              the first, you and your family eat it
the second given to destitute etc
the third goes to the priest
in our days it's the third (paid every 3rd year in the old testament)
that's popular
even then our pastors are not 'priests' ordained after the order of the old precept
and so have no spiritual stand to receive tithe;
to continue paying tithe you'd need to resurrect the priestly worship
meaning you'd have to reverse the work of Christ
No wonder it was never mentioned after Christ died and resurrected
seyi alagbe:     actually they have a better calling and should eat of the altar but not tithe
me               that's where I am going
the fellowship of saints was designed to be a family
where the surplus of some flows to filling the needs of the others...
seyi alagbe:    lets just pray that the church should see this light so that we can enjoy real koinonia
me:                 and with this excellent spirit of fellowship tithe is so trivial
but we somehow lost it
the church we have inherited is no more than a public place...
seyi alagbe:     Jide you are really making me think about my church at home
me:                  where we need to play psychological games on peoples' mind before they give
i do not blame the pastors or any one, we are all victims of this age
and it saddens to know that within a church, within one room
we have believers that are extremely wealthy
and we have those who must trust God to get the next morsel of bread
seyi alagbe:     the probem actually started long time ago when political influence affected the church and the devil took away the fellowship and replaced it with religious frivolities
me:                 now i ask,"What has happened to us?"
but we needn't continue in this deceit
if we want the fellowship of the Lord returned we must be ready to do more than pray
seyi alagbe:     it's disheartening and i know Jesus is still pleading with the father for a major revival in His body
me:                 I'd rather be a sinner and a full-time sinner than uphold a fake faith
seyi alagbe:     you are right and i think that's why some of us have this understanding so that we can humbly and fearlessly defend the truth by communicating it in our sphere of influence
me:                 the answer to the problems of our days cannot be gotten from the church with the way we have mixed clay with gold
seyi alagbe:     so what do you think is the way out?
me:                  Science is asking questions, sinners are, but we have no inkling what the answers are
Seyi, the way is not far at all
we all know it
but we do not act on it
seyi alagbe:     so share with me
me:                  it's simple whatever the Word/Spirit says, do it just exactly without fear what people will think
Look at this too...
I do not know the answer, but I know we already know it
He said we have received an anointing that teaches us all things
so it's either that He is not teaching us or we are ignoring His teachings
seyi alagbe:       i agree but if the message is to reach all we have to share with those who do not see this way
me:                  I'm tired of leaving one church for another
just to discover the same things are there too
seyi alagbe:     he taught us and He cannot deny himself
thats is another issue because that perfect church that provides real fellowship and uphold the wholesome teachings of Christ seems not to exist
me:                  true
so the answer is not in starting a new church
God gave to us a family of saints and see what we have become!
it's now so bad that the moment someone comes to you in God's name you start being on your guard

We started from giving...
how many times have those monies given been channeled to meeting the believers needs?
seyi alagbe:      Jide but would you agree with me that God will still do a work on the Church Jesus is coming to take up
me:                  I have not for once believed that Christ will look away from His church for a second
if He has to stand outside at the door knocking He will till we listen and open to Him
seyi alagbe:     you know why Jesus actually completed everything but see what's happening
thats mean we have to return to Him fully and let Him have His way
me:                  how I wish we'll live the way He wants us to
that my wealth and needs will be my brothers' too and not just mine
that we can have true love taught again by the Church of Jesus and not by Hollywood
that I be not careful to share my joy with brethren without fear they will envy me
or my pains and failings without fear they will judge me
seyi alagbe:    its true that will be too much for the devil to handle
that's when Jesus's prayer of John 17 will really manifest
me:                   I am going to try and upload this conversation onto my blog if you don't mind
seyi alagbe:     what happens on your blog?
me:                  i just started it yesterday to put up articles and poetries etc
seyi alagbe:      no problem
me:                  it has been encouraging talking with you.

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